Gordon Chang, Asia analyst and author of “The Coming Collapse of China,” spoke about today on FOX News Channel’s Sunday Morning Futures.
CHARLES PAYNE, FOX NEWS GUEST ANCHOR: That was Florida Senator Marco Rubio speaking on “Mornings With Maria” after Hong Kong police made dozens of arrests in the first day after the passage of a controversial new national security law, sweeping legislation that could potentially erode any remaining autonomy in the city. I want to bring in Asia analyst Gordon Chang. He is the author of “The Coming Collapse of China,” also a senior fellow at the Gatestone Institute. Gordon, thanks for joining us. Senator Rubio suggesting that even American businessmen at this point would be wise to avoid Hong Kong. Is it that dangerous right now? GORDON CHANG, AUTHOR, “THE COMING COLLAPSE OF CHINA”: Well, it certainly is, because we don’t know the scope of this national security law, but, on paper, it gives China the ability to imprison anybody that it wants. And, indeed, you don’t even have to go to Hong Kong to be at risk, because Hong Kong and China have extradition treaties with other countries. And Article 38 of this law says that any comment, any statement on foreign soil by a foreigner is a violation of the national security law if it advocates succession, terrorism, collusion, sedition, all the rest of it. PAYNE: Gordon, there was a sort of game of cat and mouse, if you will, ahead of the official vote on this. We knew it was coming. America took action. Congress took action. President Trump took action as well. And still China steamrolled ahead with this anyway. What’s the message that they’re sending by — when it’s acknowledged that this has actually galvanized political foes, not just in America, but around the world, ahead of this passage? CHANG: Yes, China is saying that it not only demands the total obedience of people in China. It demands the total obedience of people in Hong Kong. And, Charles, let’s not make any mistake about this. China demands total obedience from everybody else in the world. It can’t enforce that right now, but that really is the message. PAYNE: The one country/two systems agreement, is that effectively out the window? CHANG: Yes, it is. China promised a high degree of autonomy under the one country/two systems formula for 50 years. Now, 23 years in, that’s no longer the case, because the national security law allows China to do anything it wants in Hong Kong. And, indeed, as we talked about, its scope is international. So, comments or activities outside of China and Hong Kong are subject to this national security law. PAYNE: Gordon, you know the dissidents’ movement in Hong Kong pretty well. Are they going to be able to overcome this, even, of course, in the back — with the backdrop of coronavirus? Because it feels like China really is — this is it. They’re going to stamp out this potential revolutionary period. CHANG: I think the answer is yes, because really what we have is more than just a protest movement, Charles. We have an insurgency. And we know that insurgencies can disappear for times, but they can come back, and they usually do. Now, in Hong Kong, we have seen the pro-democracy forces be intimidated. So, for instance, people deleted their Twitter accounts. They also disbanded pro-democracy organizations. And some people, indeed, have already fled. But, nonetheless, we did see protests on July 1, which had marked the handover from Britain to China… Gordon, just before your segment, Maria Bartiromo speaking with Attorney General Bill Barr, and she mentioned that a lot of Wall Street folks aren’t interested in picking good guys vs. bad guys. And, of course, it really — he bristled at the idea that they would think this way, noting that this is not about profits, this is about the future for our children and grandchildren, and maybe Wall Street and these big businesses are not taking that seriously enough. CHANG: Well, they’re certainly not, Charles. But we have got to remember that business is generally amoral. And it’s not up to them to determine national security policy. That’s up to the president of the United States. And it’s also up to the president to implement it. So, although I think Wall Street and American business are engaging in really terrible and disgusting tactics, nonetheless, it’s up to Washington to stop them. PAYNE: You know, the same — by the same token, I was on “FOX & Friends” this morning, and I said, we haven’t been paying attention to China. When I said we, I meant as a nation, because of our media. You have been on this for years. Maria has been on this for at least three or four years. And I think we’re overlooking the threat here. What do you make of that, that this is a building time bomb that we’re going to have to deal with at some point, maybe sooner, rather than later? CHANG: You’re absolutely right about that, Charles. In the last week, we have heard several Chinese officials and former officials talk about an all-out confrontation with the United States. They say they need to prepare for it. Obviously, we’re not deterring China. There’s a Chinese military that killed 20 Indian soldiers on June 15. And I think it has not satisfied its bloodlust. So, we have got to be extremely concerned what happens next, because Chinese leaders are engaging in provocative conduct across the world and across their region. PAYNE: I have got less than a minute to go, Gordon. But, on that point, I feel like Taiwan might be where we’re heading, a confrontation there. If you read between the lines, it looks like that’s building pretty rapidly. CHANG: You’re right. Xi Jinping, the Chinese ruler, has on a number of occasions this year threatened an invasion of Taiwan. The Chinese officials have warned Secretary of State Pompeo that this is a red line. And, indeed, Chinese military has engaged in some very provocative behavior around Taiwan and over Taiwan.